(dvd) sup subtitles support

I have lots of dvd sups to include in mkvs.
Usualy, I convert sup to srt, sometimes to vobsub. But sometimes I can’t do it.
My question is: is it possible somehow to add dvd sup to mkv (unsupported message).
Is BRsup supported?
(problematic sups can not be loaded into BDSup2Sub so I can’t convert.
They can be loaded into SubtitleCreator, but converting to vobsub is not exactly the same. OCRing with few apps give poor results.)


Not sure what type of subtitles you mean exactly, but if your “BRsup” refers to the picture-based subtitle format used on Blu-rays, then yes, MKVToolNix does support HDMV PGS subtitles as they’re often called, “HDMV graphics streams” is the official names in the Blu-ray specs. When outside of any container, the extension usually used for them is .sup, though there is no official format specification for having them outside of MPEG transport streams.

MKVToolNix also supports the text-based subtitle format used on Blu-rays, usually called “HDMV TextSV” or officially “HDMV Text subtitle streams”.

I don’t know what “dvd sup” is supposed to be, though. MKVToolNix does support the graphical subtitle format used on DVDs, but only if they’re extracted into what’s colloquially called “VobSub subtitles” (a pair of files, usually with .idx & .sub extensions, but not .sup).

thanks, mbunkus, you answered me.
I just use ‘BRsup’ and ‘dvd sup’ to make difference for files with same extension (sup) but extracted from different sources. And you understood me correctly.
Now I am talking about subtitles in plain dvd.
DVDSubEdit and Pgcdemux can extract subtitles only in .sup format.
Later I can convert (SubtitleCreator) .sup to idx/sub, but because of different treatment of background color/transparent the result is unreadable in video (outlined, not filled letters). It can’t be corrected.
Also, that sup can’t be loaded in BDSup2Sub (dont know why) to try another conversion to vobsub.
I just don’t understand why picture-based subtitle sup used on Blu-rays and vobsub from dvds are supported, but .sup from dvds is not. They are more or less the same thing. Sup is also ‘more basic’ than vobsub, I think, cos every app for dvd work with sup.
Do you know is there any app (windows) that can extract subtitle from dvd directly as vobsub (w/o conversion sup to vobsub)?

They’re not really the same thing. The information that’s present in the .idx file for the VobSub file pairs is stored in different parts in the DVD, and that information includes the color palette to use. If the palette information is missing, a program must guess the palette, which often fails. Therefore MKVToolNix doesn’t even try & doesn’t support only reading the graphics bitstream from DVD subtitles but insists on using the VobSub file pairs. Those do contain the color palette (among other pieces of information).

Yes, that’s it!
(I was wrong when thought that SubtitleCreator get palette information for sup (loaded IFO palette AND sup) for conversion to vobsub. It cant do it so that’s why converted vobsub is bad)
I understand now why sup isn’t supported in mkvtoolnix. (so .sup from blueray includes color palette?)
I found a tool for extracting idx/sub from dvd: VSRip.
All job is done, and result is exellent! In some cases subtitle designed for dvd (position, font…) looks better in mkv than plain ocr’d srt. Now I know how to use it.
Thanks, mbunkus for replies and for your great tool!
One more notice: I recently updated my (very) old MKVToolNix and found that now selecting languages for audio and subs is not so smooth as it was. I see that lots of work is done, but list is simply too long. Now, to make list shorter I have to use ‘only include often used entries’ checkbox, but then can’t get my really often used on top of them. It would be nice that ‘reserved for local use’ entries could be disabled in preferances.

Yes, they’re included in the bitstream itself instead of being stored in a separate file.